Recently a good friend made a comment on the blog that I was being watched for making comments against the administration and it's behavior. Why are we okay with that? Is that okay? Are we okay with our rights, authorized under the constitution, being taken away? Its not American. It's not democratic and It's not free. Would you stand up if your neighbors were taken away for speaking up? Where do we draw the line? This next election provides a water shed for what you believe and what you value. Choose wisely.
Friday, December 28, 2007
Speech from Boston Legal
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15 comments:
spoken in jest of course. however, i would argue to the point of tears the value of what has been accomplished not for the principle of doctrine or gain to the American people but rather the gain of those overseas that have been abused, tortured and killed - not by America but rather those that have been in power over their own people. The side that is advertised to the American population is not valid in my eyes and also the eyes of those that have lived under the thumb of a man, an idea that views freedom as something sub-standard. We believe what we hear and read - without proper knowledge of real truth. I am of the same thought - but the truth is not what we see on CNN or NBC these days. Speak to those that have lived, breathed and witness the hatred of individual freedom and then, only then will the truth be better understood. What I live and work in each day, the tears of joy in their voice knowing that America answered the call to bring reform, change and freedom is what you will not hear, see or feel on the evening news. For me, I am impressed with what has been done and I am also impressed with what is forgotten in America. Have we not learned a thing or two about humanity? It is easy to sit back and view from the sidelines and armchair quarterback the events that are thousands of miles away. Freedom - easy to say...not so easy to give. Must we wait for another event that costs lives to understand? be careful of hollywood and cspan - the reality is in the eyes of those that have survived the worst brutality - a country that has turned it's back on it's own people. we are blessed - this country is great - there is none like it in the world...for that i am willing to die for it and so are many that are not even citizens. freedom - is it only for a select few?
Andy,
All thinngs I would agree with. But I would argue there are two sides. I have friends that I served with in the military that have just returned within the last year (two in fact) that see a different side. The see the mess that the Iraq has become. What I am saying is not that the war is right or wrong. I am not arguing about the war. I am arguing that this administration in the face of all of that has worked to erode our rights afforded to us by the constitution. Regardless of what is going on, The men and women fighting over in the middle east stand for our right to be free. The president takes an oath to uphold the constitution. We as Americans have always believed that our rights are more important than our safety otherwise we would be no better than our sworn enemies. When you government starts to chip away at those rights they cheapen the sacrifice that our men and women in the armed forces make every day. Can you argue with the fact that our rights afforded under the constition have been subverted? There is a quote in the piece that I posted that stated (and I am paraphrasing here) that I may disagree with what you are saying but I will argue to the death your right to say it. That is what free speach is all about. Decisions by are government directly impact our lives and families. If we disagree, we have a right, and a responsibility to speak up. Beyond that, Quite frankly, It creaps me out that they have been listening to peoples' calls without authorization (which they could get after that fact, but chose not to do so. There is a secret court set up for it). Whether you agree with the war, Whether you approve of George Bush's decisions on foreign policy, How can you be okay with our rights and protections being taken away?
Andy,
thanks for Writing a response. It is what is so great about America. Now if I get carted off to jail tommorrow, I am calling you to bail me out!
well, if they are....IF they are listening into my call - big deal - I have nothing to hide anyway. if listening to phone calls helps subvert another attack on innocent lives - i really am okay with that. dont go to DC if you are freaked out about b-brother...from what I hear and am told is that city is the city of spies and listening devices on just about every corner. we were told not to discuss work stuff outside...weird.
war sucks dude - i am not a fan - dont get me wrong. i just hate the one sided approach that the media sends out - it is all the same...sick and disturbing and full of hate. There are some amazing things going on in these places that you will never know about on a public scale.
rights - yeah I agree with you there - our rights have been chipped away for many years....in many areas...church/state, speech, hell, you name it...right to bear arms is one that is under attack too. Everyone has ideas about the true meaning of what was intended over 200 years ago.
the reality of running a country - whether it be rep or dem - is at times an ugly business most of the time - making some insane decisions knowing that a majority of folks may not approve or understand at all. There are things that we as the public DONT need to know about - there are things I know I want nothing to do with. I trust that the people in control of this nation are doing what they know to be the best. I pray, as the Bible states, for our nations leaders that God would lead them.
My concerns at this point have to be laid at the foot of the Cross. I am not in control - I have no say if the N ... A is going to listen in on my next call. I guess I dont care. but i will do what I can to vote, speak out, support, go to church, love my family, praise Jesus, throw snow balls later today and yes sneak in a few beers while playing Lego Star Wars Wii...b/c I can. but i am aware of our friends, family and many we dont know of - working in places no one knows about doing things for people that they dont even know....b/c it is the right thing to do.
That is why it has been difficult this Christmas - knowing that so many are doing what I am afraid to do while i enjoy the freedom they have been willing to lay their life on the line for.
ramble...ramble.
have a great day Eric the Red - I am heading out to drag the kids behind the bike on the sled...should be interesting.
ac
Andy,
while I appreciate your opinion. "War sucks dude" is about the most understated view of this war that anyone can have. I know you have thought long and hard about your opinion. Please don't trivialize it that way. I would argue that many of the arguments you have made about not worrying about rights being taken away are the same arguments most people have made in countries where governments went south. Nazi Germany included. No one seems to care until they are coming for you. I am a student of history. I believe humanity often repeats its mistakes. I believe we are seeing that now. Your comments about humanity were interesting in your first post. I thought about that. I would counter that our imprisoning people indefinetly without representation under the argument that the are not citizens therefore do not fall under our rights (real consistent there) and our use of torture (Jesus might have a problem with that one) as well as this administrations wishy washy stance on the "definition" of torture cheapens our humanity. We have created much more ill will and inevitably put our troups in more danger as well as made us less safe at home by employing these tactics. I emplore you to pray about it and think about what Jesus would truly do in this instance. I guarantee you that "shock and awe" would not have been it.
This country of America has a long way to go and a lot to learn. how long have we been around...200 plus years while most of the world has been functioning for thousands of years. I guess politics, ideals etc.. are worthy of comment and critique but your statement of WWJD is spot on. I cannot change the hand of this gov system no matter how much I love or hate it and that is why I have to look at "wwJd" on a personal level. I would gather that Jesus is more interested with my testimony towards others, my love for others, the spiritual well-being of myself and my family. After all the greatest commandment is to "Love the Lord thy God and love thy neighbor as thyself." Change will take place starting with us personally - spreading to family and so on. That is my bottom line here as it sounds as if it is yours too.
I am proud of this great nation - not ashamed. with that I have to accept that much will be done to preserve it - things will be done that we dont want to even know about - the ugly side. I am exposed to the secret nature of some of it and I see it's place. I totally see your view here and I agree in many aspects and others I dont...hey, free speech at work.
Have a great new years bud and thank you for the chat time. we need to hit some spin time together - with beer of course. we both like beer right? if so, let that be a point of common ground.
drew
Beer is always a good common ground. Along with the bike! As always Andy, It is good to hear from you. I agree that in many ways you and I are more alike than different. I wish the rest of the country were able to have the discussion you and I just had be as constructive as our exchange was. Thanks again! See you at spin class sometime.
one of my favorites - our pastor brought it up in church this evening - politicians being able to vote themselves loads of cash - I also heard that MN might loose a seat in the House due to people leaving MN for tax reasons??? ugh... I am going to have HR give me access to pay rates and give myself a bump.
Oh, another good quote from this evening at the house of God...
Something for nothing means someone didnt get what they earned...i like that one.
be more concerned that 49 of 50 senators are millionaires. They don't represent us. The represent other millionaires. We just get the scraps. Campaign finance reform and stricter rules on lobbying and lobbyists (special interest groups) are key. Neither side will vote for it because it is money out of their pockets and campaign coffers. Kinda off topic but glad to hear from you. This wasn't and shouldn't be a conservative vs. liberal rant.
By then way, Have you ever lived in a low tax state? The economy stinks and unemployments is higher than here. There are strong reasons why major companies stay in this god forsaken tundra. Livability is high here. People are educated (strong public education system producing educated folks) Strong fire and police forces that are well funded and well trained. Think about the bigger view. South and North dakota are losing population because of economic reasons as well as the livability factor. Why does your pastor talking about politics in church anyways....... Is he campaigning or something?
his comments are usually short about politics - he doesnt care. He is about the most solid Christian I know and he likes commenting on politics from time to time - usually to just raise eyebrows. we are an independent church with no affiliation so there isnt much to be concerned with. I would agree though that as a country's government strays away from the truth of the Bible it falters into ineffectiveness. not trying to start a whole new line of thought but it goes back to the WWJD thing...imagine if politicians followed that principle...where would we be as a nation? okay - the beer is talking so I must hit the sack. Enjoy the day off!
That is cool. Just curious. Just as an aside, on the tax issue Jesus did say to give to ceasar what is ceasars and give to god what is God's. The tax issue has less to do with religion than with people's politics in my opinion. Some how it gets made into a religious issue when truly it really has nothing to do with religion unless you argue the civic responsibility angle. Man this thread has really gone on long. Thanks for the debate. It truly is what makes America Great
"Something for nothing means someone didnt get what they earned...i like that one" I like it to. I agree with it in most instances. But I have to tell you that I struggle with it. I don't think Jesus would like it all that much because that philosophy is used aggressivly by many as an excuse to not help the poor, to allow consumerism to run rampant, and for many people, even christians, to aquire money and material possessions out of control (Mac Hammond anyone?) Sorry not trying to stir the pot and I know I just started another debate...........
no,not a debate - and agreement. the something for nothing was in reference to people who "demand" things as they feel it is owed to them..."the give me that b/c i am too lazy to do a damn thing to get it" routine. I guess the whole living off the system when you could do something to earn your way. not speaking of the poor but of the lazy. yes it is a long string. it was good.
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